Setting Up Urduweb
I was remiss in my last post in not thanking Nabeel and Asif for their help, both monetary and otherwise.
Now that we have setup hosting, let’s start the process of moving and creating content. My ideas are given below. Feel free to disagree or suggest anything else.
- Urdu Planet has already been moved here. I have set up redirects in the .htaccess file in the old location so that it forwards to the new one.
- Urdu Wiki is currently here. Asif, can you copy it over to the following URL:
http://www.urduweb.org/wiki/? .htaccess redirect should be easy but I am not sure if it is possible in the current hosting setup of Urdu Wiki. I would be willing to help Asif make the move. - This blog has to be converted to Wordpress 1.5 and moved to Urduweb with the following URL:
http://www.urduweb.org/blog/. Danial and Asif, both of you have experience with WP1.5 and have customized it for bilingual blogging. So I need your help here. - Software includes the utilities and tools developed by Nabeel as well as Asif’s fonts package and Qadeer’s localization of phpBB for Urdu. Can you guys come up with a decent folder organization under
http://www.urduweb.org/software/? - Urdu Forum needs to be created at
http://www.urduweb.org/forum/. Qadeer and Nabeel should be able to take care of that. I can help if needed. - Main page is to be another Wordpress 1.5 driven site with links to all the sections as well as some periodic content like a blog. The Pages feature of Wordpress should also come in handy here. Since WP1.5 is involved, Asif and Danial would be needed. Nabeel has expressed interest before in the sort of content we should put here. So this one is a group thing.
- Urdu Blogs Directory needs to be reorganized and set up properly in one location. Right now, we have a list on the main page of this blog, a webring, a list on the Urdu Wiki as well as one on Urdu Planet. All of these need to be combined and a system needs to be set up for them to be easily updated and new blogs added. I take responsibility for this. This blog directory will be located at
http://www.urduweb.org/directory/.
- Site Design is also very important. All of the subsites and pages of Urduweb should have a distinctive but similar design in terms of colors and other presentational/CSS features. This requires someone with knowledge of CSS as well as someone with a good artistic sense for the web. I am definitely not that person. Any volunteers?
If anyone is interested in contributing and helping out, please let me know so that I can give you the needed access to the urduweb account. In addition to the work required setting up the site, we’ll definitely need continuous work in keeping it current and interesting. So any help is welcome and appreciated.
June 29th, 2005 at 12:43 am
If we are going to use wordpress as our main content management tool then we would need to install it in the root directory.
Before using wordpress, we need a design. Moving the blog should not be any trouble at all, installing wordpress and moving blogger entries to the wordpress is absolutely halwa. I would like to work on the design (I am not good at it but until we have some better solution we can use something simple like a three/two column template) and moving the blog entries to wordpress.
June 29th, 2005 at 5:58 am
I have been thinking on similar lines. I think we should use WordPress as our main CMS. The usual installation of WP has to be customized to make it work as a CMS. WP 1.5 already has a static page feature. I know of two other alternatives:
1. The Blix theme
2. The Semiologic theme
I have not tried these out but I have the impression that these two complement each other in some way. I think we should base our design on some existing theme. We should start with some basic design and then we should continue to evolve it. I have noticed that Dreamhost also offers WordPress installation.
I will set up the forum as soon as possible. I am also working to update the Urdu Webpad. I will integrate the updated version in the forum as soon as it finished.
June 29th, 2005 at 6:51 am
->Zack: I am currently out of country. InshaAllah would try to move UrduWiki when I come back.
June 29th, 2005 at 7:46 am
I just noticed at Jang’s web site that they are also offering RSS feed.
June 30th, 2005 at 8:55 am
CONGRATULATIONS on setting up urduweb.org. My services are available.
July 2nd, 2005 at 9:42 pm
Semilogic is designed to be a more powerful CMS. I don’t think that we would need the same plugins they are using. Blix theme uses small fonts wide margins. Since we would be using larger fonts we would need a bigger canvas and different color scheme. My internet connection is not working I will join you guys when the broken pipes get fixed.
July 3rd, 2005 at 7:08 pm
I imported this mt blog and tested it on my computer. The overall install and import entries process took less than 10 minutes. I installed Textile 2 plugin and added the .urdu .en blocks in CSS using the default wordpress 1.5 theme.
Have a look at this page
July 4th, 2005 at 5:51 pm
I suggest this design. It is similar to the blix one suggested by Nabeel.
July 5th, 2005 at 5:36 am
Danial: This layout looks good. Can you provide more details about it?
July 5th, 2005 at 4:47 pm
Nabeel: This layout would be easy to play with. Color scheme and mouse over effects could be added/modified at any time. But we need a layout where we can dynamically serve different pages with the same style but changed content. We will change the content in the sidebar which means different sidebars for different sections.
For example on my blog you would see dynamically served links on the sidebars. It has increased usability on my site.
On the main page’s sidebar we would provide links to recent articles from WIKI, Recent Posts from Forums, Links to download Urdu fonts, Archives of Urdu Blog, recent comments on blog posts, a search box, etc.
We will use the same header including the menu bar on all our pages, excluding forums and Wiki. We would need a color scheme that matches with our forum’s templates or we would get a forum template that matches our CMS style. Adding a header frame in Wiki and Forum is an option but I personally don’t like frames no matter how invisible they are.
I think layout is not a trouble at all. We just need to decide a color scheme for now and start working on it. Experiments with my blog’s theme taught me that simplicity is the best design.
July 6th, 2005 at 7:11 am
Danial: Thanks for the information. I think it would be a little bit difficult to maintain a consistent look and feel throughout the urduweb.org’s content. The current forum theme is an adaptation of the default subSilver theme. I am working on adapting other themes too. We can still provide some consistence by using similar header information and graphics in the forum, the wiki and the main urduweb.org web site. We need somebody with artistic skills to volunteer for the task of creating graphics for urduwe.org as well as for the forum.
July 7th, 2005 at 1:17 am
I don’t think I would like to be left out. So, count me in too
Since Zack bhai has already taken the responsibility of “assigning jobs according to each one’s skills” I needn’t worry of explaining or figuring out where do I fit in… But I feel that fortunately or unfortunately, I seem to be good for only the last point of site-design…
as for WP themes, I am not really sure if the discussion over them is really valid except to the point how each theme structures the content. The wide nav, wide canvas, long masthead and just about everything else can be scaled up and down. May be I am a non-programmer so I value that part more and feel CSSing to be easier part but I do think someone needs to figure out or explain which particular content-snippets need to be extracted from each or any theme there is (e.g. last ten comments, archives by month as well as category etc etc…) And yes, for my wishlist, I would definitely want a no-nonsense comment area box which easily switches back and forth with urdu and english text and few other features (Danial has already done most of work at his blog).
July 7th, 2005 at 7:22 am
Ejaz: Kindly have a look at the Mehfil forum which I have set up. It is still in beta-phase and we are still working on it. Qadeer now has the responsibility of generally administering the forum, even if he does not know it. I am working just to adapt the default themes for Urdu content. Danial has already complained abou the point sizes. Web-typography is a complex subject and is somewhat difficult to grasp for non-designers like me. You will notice that certain edit areas of the forum allow editing both in Urdu as well as in English mode. This is by virtue of the Urdu Webpad integration into the forum. A time may come when WYSIWYG Urdu editing is available in the forum.
I would like the main page of urduweb.org to offer summaries of the updated content of its several sections i.e. forum, wiki, blogs etc. I would also like to have a literary section on urduweb.org.
I have noticed that the situation of internet-access in Pakistan is driving you nuts. I hope that the situation improves soon before people end up in some psychiatry ward.
July 7th, 2005 at 9:00 am
Nabeel, thanks for the link. Danial had sent me the link in the same morning and it seems to be a good effort, only that I can’t tell how many people are gonna use it. For me, forums and blogs are two different mediums. And I loving the “idea of blogs” more than the old school “forums” may seem little rough and rude to some. But anyhow, here are some of the pointers:
I am particularly annoyed by the top of the page primary navigation which translates things very badly.
Maloomat-e-Aama sounds like Encyclopedia
Ap Kay Sawal is closer if not perfect to FAQs [ yes, I have deliberately used AP Kay meaning closer relationship to your user etc.)
Telaash is again something which sounds not so suited… Why not Talaash Karein (action) or Dhoondhain (again call for an action)
Arkaan and Fahrist are the words which in my humble opinion some 40 something would love to read and read again even if he/she doesn’t want to use the link. Here, we need to clearly classify the “positioning” of this service. If it’s a general service, which it sure is, you need to identify which percentage of population/sample would use it more… I have always believed the idea Urdu has been harmed beyond near-future remedy or cure. So, you can either keep say something like “Ap k anay sey dar-o-baam main roshni ki dabaiz laher ayee” or “Ap k aney per bohat khushi howee” Don’t take me wrong, I am the one who would always prefer Dickens, Tolstoy, Emily Bronte over almost any contemporary but having actually heard so many woes and stories of common people of all ages to designers who have very little etymology-linguistics knowledge and then companies regarding content on web… Because of this much interaction and having found no common-ground in 4 years, I have mostly remained silent (thus you can find my name nowhere in any list of blogs, urdu or any such stuff)... I am not sure how flexible this team would like to be, but if someone is really considerate about what I have come across in last 4 years with regard to web-access, stereotypes of pakistani online generation, urdu in particular and our position on global internet forum, I would really appreciate if you guys could see if we could use multilingual “labelling systems”. For example, here, I would, as a user, prefer and be able to read and scan the title Members list (written in urdu) than Fahrist-e-Arakeen etc… Yes, I don’t have any empirical study or eye-movement and mouse data to support my point here, but without actually having 500 or more users in 2 months (it’s possible in almost every other scenario you can think of and ask for pakistani internet generation to participate) I would retain my viewpoint.
Registration Kerwaiyeh – Nadra – Passport Office – U Fone bills etc etc… All of the “synonymous” words that ring in our minds pertaining to this label is not pleasant. I personally feel KERWAIYEH to be highly offending for me. There’s no one else I require or need or even expect to do registration on my part whereas “Kerwaiyeh” suggests someone else would do. I haven’t come across any suitable alternative to Sign Up and Sign In in urdu so far. But unless, you are specifically targetting new internet users, old users or such who may like some new terms and not get confused with everything else they have previously learnt (like all of us), I don’t see any reason why this label should be used. I would rather use something like “Member Banain” because Banain is calling for action which is self-sustaining and something which everyone would have to do himself/herself and member in urdu is quite readable (i mean in a matter of milliseconds even thanks to hundreds of billboards and hoardings outside shops here).
Profile: No suggestion. You have to ask for general feedback for that.
Private Messages…. The label is too long and I already can’t believe PhpBB could allow such “long sentence” in the middle of “keywords” whereas they could have easily stated: Your Private Messages or just Private Messages. So translating a bad label as is causes equal damage. So two “sign-in” links side by side have always confused me and irritated when I got to understand the difference. It would be some years when we probably get to terms with reading urdu comfortably. Part blame goes to designers, web publishers for bad typography and scalability issues and part to our own culture where urdu has been downlplayed even in urdu-medium schools.
Log in: I guess you didn’t have any choice here either. It really is a tough one and more commonly used place with “Search” and “Contact” than others on web. Not really sure if it really is suitable or if there’s a good alternative to it.
Because of the disruptions of internet, things haven’t been working smoothly here so I am not as productive as it ought to be, but would try my best to take out some time on regular basis to work in any regard you guys deem suited…
And where is asif bhaii btw??? na koi khair na khaber… سر جی، لاہور ٓام کھانے تو نہیں پہنچے ہوءے؟
July 7th, 2005 at 5:28 pm
Nabeel bhai we can show latest topics from the forum on the main page of urduweb. Please have a look at undernet Pakistan’s website. They show latest forum posts from their “news and announcement” section and they also randomly display user profiles. Like all other open source solutions, PhpBB also has many plugins and hacks already available which we can use throughout our website. Same goes for UrduWiki.
The Urdu forum is a new thing. I am sure Qadeer would keep improving it until it gets closer to the perfection.
Ejaz, I use some hacks on my website. I use them because I am lazy and I would’nt like urduweb to use bad techniques. I am sure you would agree with me that even though it is difficult but we should try our best to make Urduweb usable and standard compliance.
July 8th, 2005 at 6:45 am
اعجاز، آپ کے تفصیلی تبصرے کا بے حد شکریہ۔ اس سے یقینا ہمیں فورم کو بہتر بنانے میں مدد ملے گی۔ میں امید کرتا ہوں کہ قدیر احمد رانا بھی اس تبصرے کو پڑھے گا کیونکہ ترجمہ کا کام وہی کر رہا ہے۔
دانیال، [en](en)phpBB کی انفارمیشن تک رسائی کے لیے ذرا اس لنک پر نظر ڈالو۔ میرے خیال میں ہم سب کو ایک جگہ پر [en](en)WordPress, phpBB اور کونٹینٹ مینیجمنٹ کے بارے میں اپنی معلومات اکٹھی کر لینی چاہییں۔ اس مقصد کے لیے اس بلاگ پر ایک پوسٹ لکھی جا سکتی ہے یا پھر اردو وکی کا استعمال کیا جا سکتا ہے۔
July 8th, 2005 at 9:15 pm
میرے خیال میں وکی پر زیادہ مناسب ہوگا۔ آپ نے جو لنک دیا ہے یہ یقینا ہمارے مین صفحے پر کام کرے گا۔
July 15th, 2005 at 1:09 pm
I just created a “Urdu Graphic Blog” also i designed some graphic logos for Urdu Forum.
http://urdu-graphic.blogspot.com